New hybrid to avoid

[Whitelightning777]

A person or persons on Facebook known as the DiabolicAL spiderlord has claimed to have crossed P irminia with P canbridgi.

It's actually not all that bad looking. Here's both pics posted. The individual really should know better but claims to have froxen most of the slings.

 

[sdsnybny]

This has been done several times both intentionally and accidentally (MM's look almost identical). The crosses are beautiful but some of the sac will look like regular P. irminia and further pollute the gene pool. ;(

 

[Dave Jay]

This has been done several times both intentionally and accidentally (MM's look almost identical). The crosses are beautiful but some of the sac will look like regular P. irminia and further pollute the gene pool. ;(

Which leads to a demand for wild caught specimens which could lead the loss of two whole species because the wild population has been decimated to the point of extinction and the captive bred specimens are tainted.
I fear that this scenario is already playing out with Australian species unintentionally simply due to the fact that the work needed to define species just hasn't been done.
I consider it very reckless to intentionally create hybrids unless it's known that the cross produces mules. Hybrids are usually worthless so are often given to friends, friends who despite saying they understand the risks may breed them anyway, or for one reason or the other pass them on.
It's just not worth it imo.

 

[MassExodus]

From what I hear, most hybrid pairings are duds, or the offspring are sterile. If, however, they're compatible, then they should breed. Because mother nature says so. Argue the point all you want folks, I aint interested. Selfishness doesnt apply to nature.

 

[Arachnoclown]

I'm a hybrid...but sterile by choice.

 

[Thistles]

From what I hear, most hybrid pairings are duds, or the offspring are sterile. If, however, they're compatible, then they should breed. Because mother nature says so. Argue the point all you want folks, I aint interested. Selfishness doesnt apply to nature.

You're wrong about mother nature. Most hybrids produced in the hobby would never meet in the wild. They're closely related, but they've speciated due to geography. A cambridgei and an irminia are recently diverged, hence the fertility, but would never meet in the wild because their ranges don't overlap. The ones that are duds are typically the ones that are so far apart that they can share ranges without producing natural hybrids. When this sort of thing (geography changes etc) occurs in nature and closely related species are brought together, there's an extinction of one or both.

Then you say "should breed." How is that optimal? "Could" would be one thing, but you jump all the way to "possible therefore SHOULD." Does no evaluation of priorities come into play? Would the hobby prefer to have 2 distinct species or one mix? I know where I come down on that.

The hobby hybrids are unnatural. If they weren't, they would be present in the wild. "I aint interested" in disagreement is a terrible attitude regardless of the issue up for debate. You might be wrong, and if you don't listen to others you'll continue to be wrong.

 

[MassExodus]

I listen, I just won't argue a point based on selfish wants. And that's exactly where the hybrid conversation derails. If two seperate sp are compatable, why shouldnt they breed? God/ nature/ science says they can, who the hell am I to argue? Tell me you wouldnt want a catdog..Im just saying..and what if these two species make gorgeous, fertile hybrids. The only consistent response I hear is what you stated, which is a purely selfish point of view. YOU dont want hybrids created. Not for the spiders health or well being, but so you can classify those spiders according to your knowledge of them. I'll be honest, if I could breed my Lp with my local spiders, and have huge freakin Lasiopelma hybrids running around my yard feeding on local children..heeeheeeee! Weeeeee! Ok calm it down, Thistles, I'm playing devils advocate here. Lets keep it friendly hot head..

 

[Metalman2004]

I listen, I just won't argue a point based on selfish wants. And that's exactly where the hybrid conversation derails. If two seperate sp are compatable, why shouldnt they breed? God/ nature/ science says they can, who the hell am I to argue? Tell me you wouldnt want a catdog..Im just saying..and what if these two species make gorgeous, fertile hybrids. The only consistent response I hear is what you stated, which is a purely selfish point of view. YOU dont want hybrids created. Not for the spiders health or well being, but so you can classify those spiders according to your knowledge of them. I'll be honest, if I could breed my Lp with my local spiders, and have huge freakin Lasiopelma hybrids running around my yard feeding on local children..heeeheeeee! Weeeeee! Ok calm it down, Thistles, I'm playing devils advocate here. Lets keep it friendly hot head..

I gotta say I think it is the other way around. It is quite selfish to breed two species that nature never intended to meet for one’s own pleasure at the risk of tainting the species that nature created. Keeping species seperate for the good of the species that nature created is not selfish at all the way I see it.

 

[Thistles]

I listen, I just won't argue a point based on selfish wants. And that's exactly where the hybrid conversation derails. If two seperate sp are compatable, why shouldnt they breed? God/ nature/ science says they can, who the hell am I to argue? Tell me you wouldnt want a catdog..Im just saying..and what if these two species make gorgeous, fertile hybrids. The only consistent response I hear is what you stated, which is a purely selfish point of view. YOU dont want hybrids created. Not for the spiders health or well being, but so you can classify those spiders according to your knowledge of them. I'll be honest, if I could breed my Lp with my local spiders, and have huge freakin Lasiopelma hybrids running around my yard feeding on local children..heeeheeeee! Weeeeee! Ok calm it down, Thistles, I'm playing devils advocate here. Lets keep it friendly hot head..

Am I not calm? I'm calm. Criticism isn't the same as freaking out or whatever you think I'm doing.

How is it "selfish" to think that it's wrong to hybridize? I actually edited my post to add that middle paragraph; it's not the important part of the discussion. Saying that because something is possible it becomes "should" is what's selfish. You're talking about your own selfish desires to create new hybrids. I'm willing to forgo that for the benefit of the animals. I could name an infinite number of things that are possible, but should not be done for infinite reasons. "Is" is not "ought."

Nature says one species lives in Venezuela and the other in Trinidad and never the twain shall meet. Humans are the ones who have taken recently diverged species and put them back together. You haven't addressed any of my points about geography and extinction.

 

[Dave Jay]

As I said before, if the cross is known to produce infertile offspring (mules) then go your hardest.
I've seen hundreds of these threads regarding African Rift Lake Cichlids, so I've got the popcorn on!
With the cichlids it's slightly different, political unrest means the wild populations are unlikely to be overfished, but they face other threats. The fact remains though, the only way you can guarantee pure blood Lake Malawi cichlids is if they're wild caught, almost all the species have become tainted through hybridisation. To me, that is a shame.
Anyway , popcorn is ready so I'm gonna sit back and watch the show !

 

[Dave Jay]

So why is human mixing ok but not Tarantulas? The same people that would get really angry about mixing Ts are quite happy to mx their own blood, just saying...

Humans are all the same species.

 

[Thistles]

I'm sure I'm going to regret this.

Humans are the same species, so interracial couples don't produce hybrids. The tarantulas in question are being hybridized, as in, 2 separate species. Apples and oranges.

Second, hybridization causes a LOSS of diversity. Again, when this happens in nature and 2 species meet, you don't end up with 3 neat species. You end up with 1.

 

[Thistles]

So are arachnids then...

You don't get to rewrite science to accommodate your politics. I don't tolerate that **** from either side of the political spectrum.

Freaking trolls, man. Everywhere.

 

[Dave Jay]

Have you tried the pre-buttered microwave popcorn? It's quite good really, and so convenient.

 

[Thistles]

I’m sorry but you’re wrong.... All humans have racial tendencies that are unique to them, humans are NOT all the same! That’s like saying a lion is a snow leopard

I did not say that race does not exist. I said that humans are all the same species. Race would be closer to subspecies. Lions aren't snow leopards, modern humans aren't Neandertals (mostly), but there are subspecies of lion and there are races of human.

 

[Thistles]

Is a dog a wolf?

Yes. It's a man-made subspecies.

 

[Metalman2004]

So are arachnids then...

I think that OBT venom had lasting effects on Shampain’s brain....

 

[Thistles]

So a Beagle could impregnate a wild wolf, is the beagle wolf a wolf or a beagle?

Yeah, if the wolf didn't eat it first. The beagle is a breed, which is a dog, which is a wolf subspecies. Picture a Venn diagram. Wolf surrounds dog surrounds beagle.

You are a troll. This was about spiders and you've diverted it to dogs to push some race purity agenda.

 

[Arachnoclown]

 

[Dave Jay]

As soon as hybridisation was brought up I was waiting for humans and dogs to come into it! Happens every time!