Conservation the good,the bad and the ugly

[Martin Oosthuysen]

Yes you have put it perfectly !! For any species to be released back to it's original habitat/ country one must ascertain why they became threatened and what will prevent it from reoccurring again? Poaching is the biggest culprit as the demand for rare tarantulas are high!!! Take our Rhino situation in South Africa for an example!! Do u think if we breed them and release back into parks it will stop poaching or increase it for the demand is higher??
Martin I cannot read certain ppl comments so please direct it to the relevant people in the industry and field such as myself unless there is another conservator here with experience dealing with these issues. The people I've promised Nada to ignore is because I don't want to get into a long pointless debate which will steer off topic again and not stick to the point.
Ray
Nature Conservator

Summary
- increasing permits to breed or reintroduce locals would not benefit

Okay,the rhino situation I fully understand. Its a consumable resource,due to the fact they poach it for its horn. Would it not be different for Tarantulas ?

 

[Martin Oosthuysen]

Nat con is not going to change their views anytime soon unfortunately. Sounds like we would need a new government first. Because it was a proposed change in legislation, a minister would have to sign it, and sounds like they want nothing to do with that.
We had our best shot when we had a guy from nat con working with a few hobbyists and people who have been successful against nat con in the past with snakes.
Unfortunately that fell flat and the nat con guy no longer works there.
They just don't have a good enough reason to approve it.

Summary
- not feasible at all,due to current views and attitudes

So in all honesty,should we just give up ? I would think,we should really look at the governing body even if it will only impact later or maybe even never. At least we show pride in this hobby, and show we are trying to some degree. I know this might not be taken serious, but this saddens me a huge amount. Its like sorry,you're dying there's your coffin.
I just feel we should put in note effort, even if it looks like there's no possible reward in the near future.

 

[Ceratogyrus]

It would be different for tarantulas in my opinion.
Facts: There is a high demand for our local species at the moment (And just wait till they see some of the new species).
If we were allowed to breed them and sell of slings in bulk to the overseas market (At a better price than what they get wild caughts for) the demand for wild caught specimens would decrease, thereby saving the wild specimens.

 

[Martin Oosthuysen]

It would be different for tarantulas in my opinion.
Facts: There is a high demand for our local species at the moment (And just wait till they see some of the new species).
If we were allowed to breed them and sell of slings in bulk to the overseas market (At a better price than what they get wild caughts for) the demand for wild caught specimens would decrease, thereby saving the wild specimens.

Summary
- different in comparison to the rhino situation
- high demand for local specimens
- allowing to breed,would help lower the bred species selling price lower than those from the black market.
- helping wild specimens demand to decrease

Again,there would have to be a system which would have a set quota for this. Constantly being monitored,to for see supply and demand changes due to fluctuations etc.

 

[entomology]

In Vietnam tarantulas are also a delicacy and just go read up on the amounts being poached for that purpose alone. people always say genetics dnt play a role with tarantulas because they are more tolerant to the elements. Absolute nonsense we as conservationists have fights all the time with ppl who ignore the laws and keeping tarantulas without permits. Permits allow nature con to monitor and inspect On a regular basis to ensure the person is capable of looking after the species correctly and not just " shoved@ into a jar!!!! Animals have rights and "We"fight for them!!! I attended a massive dab parks conference 2 weeks ago and let me tell u a lot of oeople do care that's why they are now taking action. Many people have smuggled into provinces where it is not permitted and continue hence hefty fines and jail time will now be in effect soon for offenders breaking the law.

 

[Ceratogyrus]

My opinion is that someone can try but it will most likely not work. I think with the current situation we should be happy just being able to keep exotics.

 

[entomology]

With too many numbers conservation will just monitor or euthanaze or go to a facility to house them in this case here they will go to NZG.

 

[entomology]

Conservation won't stop exotics as they don't have the manpower to enforce the law and too many people have exotics . I suggest go to ur provincial government department and apply for captivity permits at the conservation department. Rather do it now than later so they can see you are honest and forthcoming
And will assist you in future. Be on their good side as they do good trust me.

 

[Martin Oosthuysen]

In Vietnam tarantulas are also a delicacy and just go read up on the amounts being poached for that purpose alone. people always say genetics dnt play a role with tarantulas because they are more tolerant to the elements. Absolute nonsense we as conservationists have fights all the time with ppl who ignore the laws and keeping tarantulas without permits. Permits allow nature con to monitor and inspect On a regular basis to ensure the person is capable of looking after the species correctly and not just " shoved@ into a jar!!!! Animals have rights and "We"fight for them!!! I attended a massive dab parks conference 2 weeks ago and let me tell u a lot of oeople do care that's why they are now taking action. Many people have smuggled into provinces where it is not permitted and continue hence hefty fines and jail time will now be in effect soon for offenders breaking the law.

- permits have longterm positive effects,controlling and monitoring of specimens.
- in the future more strict measures will be enforced with transgressors.
- husbandry skills of lower standards,are inhumane towards the captive specimens.

Okay,all of the above makes perfect sense. Again now I return to what I've said, having a governing body would allow easy monitoring of specimens held captive. Also of how they are held captive, natcon could say if you're not part of this initiative you're outside natcons blanket. A set of standards could be implemented as this bodies set guidelines, thus growing more trust from natcon. This could educate people to the fact that natcon is not out to get them,but educate them.

 

[Martin Oosthuysen]

My opinion is that someone can try but it will most likely not work. I think with the current situation we should be happy just being able to keep exotics.

Summary
- current situation stands as is,likelihood for change seems minimal.

Well I hope and I mean this, that the perception will change. I hope hobbyists put their differences aside,and work together. There's a saying - No I in team. This is one view I will never change,a chain is only as strong as its weakest link. We and natcon,will keep losing in some way shape or form. Us,being allowed more freedom and natcon on controlling illegal actions.

 

[Ceratogyrus]

The best situation would be for nat con to regulate the hobby or keeping/breeding of locals. Unfortunately they have other bigger problems to deal with. As an example, I have had my permit since 1998 and I am yet to see a nat con official at my place. I obviously stick to my permit conditions but if they can't watch one person how can they monitor everyone.

 

[Martin Oosthuysen]

The best situation would be for nat con to regulate the hobby or keeping/breeding of locals. Unfortunately they have other bigger problems to deal with. As an example, I have had my permit since 1998 and I am yet to see a nat con official at my place. I obviously stick to my permit conditions but if they can't watch one person how can they monitor everyone.

Summary
- not enough involvement
- not enough manpower

I can see why its an issue,being overstretched in all directions. I know I'm repeating myself, but here's where the hobby itself could step up and actually help and do good. Be more active,not just in word but action. We have enough people in the country to assist, what we decide will determine our future. Just hope,its not one of those things where we cry later WHY when you should've said WHAT can we do ?

 

[entomology]

Martin
In a " nutshell" there are too many people keeping "exotics" of varied species not just tarantulas and they don't have the manpower to inspect every house, but everyone can be more vigilant and go the legal route and don't smuggle tarantulas etc and bring them into a province without the necessary permits. Once u have a bad name with nature con they will have an eye on you always. We can all do our part as we know what's right from wrong. I will not mention names, but I was called last year for certain people who were " bust" smuggling tarantulas and i cannot and will not help as it will " tarnish" my good name in the conservation community. Logic here takes precedence and we can all learn from others mistakes and not repeat them.

 

[Ceratogyrus]

Another problem is that when people are caught smuggling they either get let off with a slap on the wrist or get away with it all together. Not much of a deterant.

 

[Martin Oosthuysen]

Martin
In a " nutshell" there are too many people keeping "exotics" of varied species not just tarantulas and they don't have the manpower to inspect every house, but everyone can be more vigilant and go the legal route and don't smuggle tarantulas etc and bring them into a province without the necessary permits. Once u have a bad name with nature con they will have an eye on you always. We can all do our part as we know what's right from wrong. I will not mention names, but I was called last year for certain people who were " bust" smuggling tarantulas and i cannot and will not help as it will " tarnish" my good name in the conservation community. Logic here takes precedence and we can all learn from others mistakes and not repeat them.

Summary
- not enough manpower
- vigilant participation from individuals,pertaining to illegal activities

I can understand natcons view,also saddens my view of the state of the hobby here.

 

[Martin Oosthuysen]

Another problem is that when people are caught smuggling they either get let off with a slap on the wrist or get away with it all together. Not much of a deterant.

Summary
- enforcement needs to be stricter
- penalties aren't sufficient

Well,like I said above so far negative in many aspects. Not a good view of something I care for, till we all stand together I can't see a true future.

 

[Martin Oosthuysen]

I will finish my part in this,with the following.

No matter what hobby or pet trade, there must always be a governing body no matter which way we look at this. For someone to take you serious,you need to be organized, otherwise too many heads not enough body parts. We need to step aside and look objectively from the outside, not just worry about our own little world. We need to start supporting each other,no matter our personal issues. If you can't care for a person,how could you care for an animal with more requirements. Our egos self importance should step aside,and mutual goals should count with a betterment for all. We can debate this, but if the current situation continues, this hobby will not flourish in this country. Illegal endeavors would,like smuggling etc. I distance myself from that, since I'm a hobbyists not a poacher but would admit if there was no hobby there wouldn't be poaching. Seeing we can't change the past,it seems to reason let's fix the future. So I hope,in all seriousness this will come to a point when some will think outside the box and realize.

 

[Ceratogyrus]

That's why I said, we should just be happy with our exotics and leave the locals.
Things are not likely to change on the locals front and despite people claiming they have import permits to import tarantulas, that is obviously not happening.
This should get people to keep breeding the species we have and make the best of the situation. What would be great is for each breeder to keep a record of their bloodlines, although I have read reports on other forums of people inbreeding 7 generations before any abnormalities were spotted, so we should be ok the way we are going.
Not sure if this is the situation in the US (Maybe one of the members there can comment), but here in SA people often cheat others out of males/slings from breeding loans. This has caused many people (including myself) to pretty much stop doing breeding loans. So I either sell my males once I am done with them, or else they die in my possession from old age eventually. This definately cuts down the chances of breeders getting new breeding males in unless they are willing to pay for it.

 

[Ceratogyrus]

Go and join a Facebook page called tarantula club of SA. They are a registered non profit organization with big plans for the future (Something like the BTS). Hopefully a group like that can eventually get off the ground and offer a group of hobbyists a possible solution.
It has been tried before a few times with other people and hasn't worked, but hoping this one is different.

 

[Martin Oosthuysen]

Go and join a Facebook page called tarantula club of SA. They are a registered non profit organization with big plans for the future (Something like the BTS). Hopefully a group like that can eventually get off the ground and offer a group of hobbyists a possible solution.
It has been tried before a few times with other people and hasn't worked, but hoping this one is different.

I will look into that group,change ha start somewhere. No matter how small,its change. I will post as soon as I have looked at them and joined up. I believe I will join,since there seems to be not other options at this present stage.