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General Tarantula Discussion
When breeding or buying slings what’s the male/Female ratio?
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<blockquote data-quote="Stan Schultz" data-source="post: 178216" data-attributes="member: 28438"><p>I promised myself I wouldn't respond to a third thread, but this was just too good to resist.</p><p></p><p>Marguerite (now deceased) and I were deeply involved in the pet industry at a variety of levels for quite a number of decades, so I know what I'm talking about here.</p><p></p><p>Consider a tarantula dealer at some weekend reptile extravaganza. (For simplicity's sake, I'll assume this individual is male, but this story really isn't about human genders. I'm just trying to keep this discussion as simple as possible.) Our dealer friend has a collection of 200 tarantulas on the table before him, hawking them to anyone who'll look his way. We will assume that his tarantulas are equally divided between male and female, 100 males and 100 females, i.e., 1:1.</p><p></p><p>A customer walks up to the booth and announces he wants 10 tarantulas, but because he's buying them in quantity, he wants to specify that they all be females. Can the dealer fill the order? Of course he can! Business has been slow and he's worried about running out of gas on the way home. "Come back in a couple of hours and I'll have them for you."</p><p></p><p>At that point he turns the running of the booth over to his helper, grabs several handfuls of tarantula containers and retires to a back corner with various instruments including a dissecting microscope. </p><p></p><p>An hour later he resurfaces with 10 guaranteed female tarantulas. His customer returns, the transaction is consummated, and the customer disappears into the crowd. At that point in time our dealer grabs the dozen or more tarantulas left from his sexing operation (now assumed to be all males since he just sold the females in the batch) and replaces them on the table among the other, remaining tarantulas.</p><p></p><p>(Bear with me. I know this is complicated, but it's important!)</p><p></p><p>Suddenly, he gets a genius idea. He quickly scribbles up a sign advertising guaranteed female tarantulas at a slightly higher price than run-of-the-mill, pay-your-money-and-take-your-chances. And he succeeds in selling another 15 guaranteed female tarantulas (but absolutely none others) by the end of the day.</p><p></p><p>Now you walk up to his table and ask how much three tarantulas would cost, and he quotes you the standard price per each times three. And you're thinking that there's a fifty-fifty chance of getting either sex with each tarantula, and therefore by the laws of probability, you have seven chances out of eight of getting at least one female tarantula out of the three. You pay your money and leave with your new tarantulas.</p><p></p><p>What's wrong with this picture?</p><p></p><p>First off, how did I get that seven chances out of eight malarkey? Well, according to the laws of probability and statistics, there are eight, and only eight, possible combinations among the three tarantulas that you purchased, namely -</p><p></p><p>M M M</p><p>M M F</p><p>M F M</p><p>F M M</p><p>F F M</p><p>F M F</p><p>M F F</p><p>F F F</p><p></p><p>And the only combination of the eight that doesn't include <strong>AT LEAST</strong> one female is the first! Thus you have seven chances out of eight of getting <strong>AT LEAST</strong> one female.</p><p></p><p>Or do you? Remember that this whole story was predicated on the assumption that the sexes occurred in equal numbers: 100 M and 100 F, 1:1.</p><p></p><p>But at the end of the day when you finally walked up and bought your three tarantulas, that fifty-fifty ratio was a fiction! The dealer sold 25 guaranteed females out of the lot of 200. Therefore, he still had 100 males, but only 75 females! The ratio is no longer 1:1, but rather 4:3.</p><p></p><p>And our dealer friend will do the same thing the next day, so by Sunday evening just before he goes home, his inventory numbers 100 males and 50 females, 2:1.</p><p></p><p>So, by the time I show up to buy my three tarantulas at the last moment on Sunday, I'm being cheated royally!</p><p></p><p>But all this begs the question of what remedies do we and the dealer have?</p><p></p><p>My remedy was that once I learned that a dealer was selling guaranteed females, I'd go to a different dealer who wasn't.</p><p></p><p>To be completely ethical, what might the dealer have done? One dealer I know of charged a surcharge for guaranteed females, and discounted the guaranteed males. Other options include keeping the extra males until they died of old age (a bad business plan), or euthanizing them (one would hope humanely).</p><p></p><p>The default plan , the one I used, was to play ignorant, "I have no idea what sex they are. Because of the difficulty and uncertainty of sex determination, especially in babies, we don't even try to determine the sex of the tarantulas we sell."</p><p></p><p>I am very interested in hearing the responses from enthusiasts, vendors and dealers, and maybe even wholesalers, alike. Fire away! I have both a tough hide to ward off blistering attacks, and broad shoulders to cry on.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Stan Schultz, post: 178216, member: 28438"] I promised myself I wouldn't respond to a third thread, but this was just too good to resist. Marguerite (now deceased) and I were deeply involved in the pet industry at a variety of levels for quite a number of decades, so I know what I'm talking about here. Consider a tarantula dealer at some weekend reptile extravaganza. (For simplicity's sake, I'll assume this individual is male, but this story really isn't about human genders. I'm just trying to keep this discussion as simple as possible.) Our dealer friend has a collection of 200 tarantulas on the table before him, hawking them to anyone who'll look his way. We will assume that his tarantulas are equally divided between male and female, 100 males and 100 females, i.e., 1:1. A customer walks up to the booth and announces he wants 10 tarantulas, but because he's buying them in quantity, he wants to specify that they all be females. Can the dealer fill the order? Of course he can! Business has been slow and he's worried about running out of gas on the way home. "Come back in a couple of hours and I'll have them for you." At that point he turns the running of the booth over to his helper, grabs several handfuls of tarantula containers and retires to a back corner with various instruments including a dissecting microscope. An hour later he resurfaces with 10 guaranteed female tarantulas. His customer returns, the transaction is consummated, and the customer disappears into the crowd. At that point in time our dealer grabs the dozen or more tarantulas left from his sexing operation (now assumed to be all males since he just sold the females in the batch) and replaces them on the table among the other, remaining tarantulas. (Bear with me. I know this is complicated, but it's important!) Suddenly, he gets a genius idea. He quickly scribbles up a sign advertising guaranteed female tarantulas at a slightly higher price than run-of-the-mill, pay-your-money-and-take-your-chances. And he succeeds in selling another 15 guaranteed female tarantulas (but absolutely none others) by the end of the day. Now you walk up to his table and ask how much three tarantulas would cost, and he quotes you the standard price per each times three. And you're thinking that there's a fifty-fifty chance of getting either sex with each tarantula, and therefore by the laws of probability, you have seven chances out of eight of getting at least one female tarantula out of the three. You pay your money and leave with your new tarantulas. What's wrong with this picture? First off, how did I get that seven chances out of eight malarkey? Well, according to the laws of probability and statistics, there are eight, and only eight, possible combinations among the three tarantulas that you purchased, namely - M M M M M F M F M F M M F F M F M F M F F F F F And the only combination of the eight that doesn't include [B]AT LEAST[/B] one female is the first! Thus you have seven chances out of eight of getting [B]AT LEAST[/B] one female. Or do you? Remember that this whole story was predicated on the assumption that the sexes occurred in equal numbers: 100 M and 100 F, 1:1. But at the end of the day when you finally walked up and bought your three tarantulas, that fifty-fifty ratio was a fiction! The dealer sold 25 guaranteed females out of the lot of 200. Therefore, he still had 100 males, but only 75 females! The ratio is no longer 1:1, but rather 4:3. And our dealer friend will do the same thing the next day, so by Sunday evening just before he goes home, his inventory numbers 100 males and 50 females, 2:1. So, by the time I show up to buy my three tarantulas at the last moment on Sunday, I'm being cheated royally! But all this begs the question of what remedies do we and the dealer have? My remedy was that once I learned that a dealer was selling guaranteed females, I'd go to a different dealer who wasn't. To be completely ethical, what might the dealer have done? One dealer I know of charged a surcharge for guaranteed females, and discounted the guaranteed males. Other options include keeping the extra males until they died of old age (a bad business plan), or euthanizing them (one would hope humanely). The default plan , the one I used, was to play ignorant, "I have no idea what sex they are. Because of the difficulty and uncertainty of sex determination, especially in babies, we don't even try to determine the sex of the tarantulas we sell." I am very interested in hearing the responses from enthusiasts, vendors and dealers, and maybe even wholesalers, alike. Fire away! I have both a tough hide to ward off blistering attacks, and broad shoulders to cry on. [/QUOTE]
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When breeding or buying slings what’s the male/Female ratio?
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