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female black widow toxicity

Discussion in 'Invertebrate and Exotic Pet Events' started by spider4747, Jan 30, 2016.

  1. spider4747

    spider4747 Member

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    I wanna try my hand at handling a simple HOT. I'm pretty certain widow venom isn't crazy deadly if I'm not mistaken. How much bad could it get?


    My physician got me some epipens because of a non existent shrimp allergy that showed up, I'm wondering if they could be applied here.
  2. Scoolman

    Scoolman Well-Known Member 3 Year Member 1,000+ Post Club

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    The lethal dose (LD50) rating for Latrodectus is .9 mg/kg. In other words 0.9mg of venom per kg of body mass is enough to kill 50% of a population mice. Of course the venom reacts differently on humans versus mice but this is how they rate venom. For reference a common bee is 5.0 mg/kg.
    I would not recommend handling of any "hot" species. It serves absolutely no purpose, other than personal gratification.
  3. spider4747

    spider4747 Member

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    Spiders are the only HOTs I'd consider. I've seen some mellow cobras in enclosures but outside that and the handlers own discretion venomous snakes are really iffy.
  4. Scoolman

    Scoolman Well-Known Member 3 Year Member 1,000+ Post Club

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    This is from WebMD
    In most cases of a black widow spider bite, symptoms consist only of:


    • Minimal to sharp pain followed by swelling and redness at the site of the bite.
    • One or two small fang marks like tiny red spots.

    In some cases, severe symptoms appear within 30 to 60 minutes. These include:


    If you believe you have been bitten by a black widow spider:


    • Get medical help immediately. Call your doctor, hospital, or poison control center.
  5. spider4747

    spider4747 Member

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    Okay, thats not the worst case scenario despite feeling aweful after.
  6. MassExodus

    MassExodus Well-Known Member 1,000+ Post Club

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    Latrodectus are very shy, docile spiders for the most part. I still don't handle them. Individual reactions range from none at all to excruciating pain and cramping in the back and stomach. Its just not worth the bill. This isn't t venom, I would go get the antivenin immediately. Allergic reactions to both the venom and extremely rarely, the antivenin, is what causes death. Though its rare and hasn't happened in years.
    Denny Dee likes this.
  7. Entity

    Entity Well-Known Member 1,000+ Post Club

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    sorry dude but why the hell would u wanna do that other than to say "look how freakin crazy i am!" i dont know...i dont get it i guess.
  8. spider4747

    spider4747 Member

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    Black widows never struck me as aggressive. venomous doesn't mean aggressive. My aunty had one in the living room for 12 years.

    maybe it had babies or it was dead? The spider in the bathroom here has already gone close to a year or longer and made a few egg sacks.
  9. Denny Dee

    Denny Dee Well-Known Member 3 Year Member 1,000+ Post Club

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    Bad idea all around. Keeping HOT species requires discipline and taking necessary precautions. Handling them is akin to handling wild animals. Widows are actually quite fragile and do not do well out of their webs. At the very least, you are going to stress her out incredibly by even taking her out of her web/enclosure. Worst case is you drop her. Widows are deadly to humans under the right circumstances. However, the fangs are extremely small and would need to bite in a soft area of the body. If you insist on pursuing this, just wear decent gloves as she probably cannot pierce through them. If you do get tagged, please do not share this with anyone as it is a matter of time before the keeping of HOT species will not be allowed if people start advertising this kind of thing.
    Kymura, Entity, Meludox and 1 other person like this.
  10. Entity

    Entity Well-Known Member 1,000+ Post Club

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    Agree with @Denny Dee on this one. I dont want any HOT species but i think people should be able to have them if they want. and that is not a good way to keep the right to have them. ....long time no see there Denny!
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  11. Kymura

    Kymura Well-Known Member 1,000+ Post Club

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    in agreement with Denny Dee.
  12. Chubbs

    Chubbs Well-Known Member 3 Year Member 1,000+ Post Club

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    I think it's pretty obvious by now that this member is just making these types of threads just to get attention. Just take a look at the majority of his posts and you may see what I mean.
  13. Adraps11

    Adraps11 Active Member

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    I was bitten by loxosceles Reclusa 3 years ago, and still have a huge indention in my bicep, where the necrosis ate away through my layers of skin, down to my muscle. It developed a staph infection after awhile to. I checked around my bed and surely enough there was a dead male brown Recluse, which I must have had rolled onto in my sleep. I wouldn't keep a recluse, but have kept a few Lactrodectus Variolus widows, but I NEVER directly handled them. I let them go in the woods quite a ways from the house after a few months.
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  14. Kymura

    Kymura Well-Known Member 1,000+ Post Club

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    We get them from time to time and I occasionally have a male crawl over me in their travels,
    for some reason they walk across the porch table where i drink my coffee..
    I always try to capture and relocate as we have a lot of small pets. and I never willingly handle them.
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2016
  15. kormath

    kormath Well-Known Member 1,000+ Post Club

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    Agreed, even with his former username.

    IMHO it's just stupid to handle a Widow or any other HOT species. Widow's are one of the most toxic in the US. Up until the 50 or 60s they were one of the top 5 deadliest in the US. They used to call them the outhouse spider as that was one of the most common places to be bitten by them.

    Like @Denny Dee said they do not do well outside the web, and are typically very skittish until they have to be defensive, then it's game on.

    I've been bitten once, on the outside of my wrist just under where i wear my watch now. It was in an entomology club one summer in middle school, were had to collect a few species of local spiders. Not something i'd want anyone else to experience, unless they're dead set on handling one against common sense and good advice, then i'll put my wager on the Widow and bring the popcorn.
  16. MassExodus

    MassExodus Well-Known Member 1,000+ Post Club

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    Widows are actually THE most venomous in the US :) Recluse bites are generally considered less dangerous or harmful to people. With both spiders, there are people who will shrug off the venom and others who will become very ill. I've read medical reports on Latrodectus bites. Some victims suffered excruciating abdominal and back pain. One of them was a child, and they only got relief from the antivenin, nothing else helped. It takes awhile to kick in, too.. Not knowing what your reaction might be is why caution must be used with these. And if it's anything like rattlesnake antivenin, it's going to cost a mighty pretty penny for Latrodectus antivenin, if any hospitals in your area even have any on hand. Just something to consider. You get bit by one of these ladies, you're gonna have a bad time, m'kay?
  17. kormath

    kormath Well-Known Member 1,000+ Post Club

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    Yep they are the most deadly, one black widow bite has the same neurotoxins as 15 prarie rattler bites. I think the reason the recluse and hobo are up on that scale is the fear factor. Their bites cause nasty skin necrosis, where the black widow just makes you sick as a dog along with the other symptoms.

    I know back in the 50s before indoor plumbing was available Widows had the highest death rate of all spiders in the US, mostly from outhouses. Antivenin wasn't available until the mid-50s which helped bring that number down. Can you imagine being bit while sitting down taking care of business? lol

    I was a teen when I got bit back in the 87 or 88 so i have no idea how much the antivenin cost. I do know i was sick for a couple days after, i'm guessing that was the serum sickness, and my wrist was stiff and ached for a week or so. I don't think my bite was very severe, more like a warning lol. I had the catch cup in place but was yapping with a friend and in the few seconds i wasn't paying attention it ran over my hand and kissed my wrist. Was a nice phat Widow too. I got a blue ribbon in the county fair for the mounting display from the entomology club, and an award for the most different species of insects caught and mounted.

    The hospital sucked though. They had to do a skin test with the antivenin i remember, to see if i would have any alergic reactions and what not. The waiting was the worst. I could feel the symptoms getting worse and as a young teen my mind kept going to the "i'm gonna die!!" part lol. Not a fun experience at all. I think played a big part to my arachnophobia.
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  18. Adraps11

    Adraps11 Active Member

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    Letting a widow crawl across your hand is just asking for it. lol No they don't feel comfortable outside their webs, and you're likely to get bitten. They are cob weavers and like any other cob weaver they are very nervous when you remove them from their webs. It's like me asking if it's okay to let a fat female recluse crawl across my hands. NOPE! I'm going by what I experienced in the months after being bitten by the recluse: intense pain, cramps, fever, infection of the bite site, cold chills, and a huge medical bill. When I captured my northern widows I was only twelve or thirteen, but even then I never let them crawl on my hands. I kept them in a jar with a hide for a few months just to observe their behavior. When I had to open the jars to feed, I put on some heavy duty gloves that went up to my elbows. ;)
  19. Denny Dee

    Denny Dee Well-Known Member 3 Year Member 1,000+ Post Club

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    Thanks Entity. Been busy with real world work. No fun! But my collection is still doing great. I have four widow species currently. My widows have only survived a year each on the average. Granted, that some of them I acquired as adults. One sling that I have raised to maturity is over a year now and doing great. Thinking I can make it to 2+ years on her. Anyone out there have a widow that made 3 years?
    Entity likes this.
  20. Ratmosphere

    Ratmosphere Active Member

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    The guy in that video is insane. If you do decide to handle that spider make sure to record a video!
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