Shipping between countries

[Tarantulamateur]

Hi
I see that most of the people who sell tarantulas are from the USA, so does anyone know how shipping between Europe and US works? Are there any rules, recommendations...
Thanks in advance

 

[PanzoN88]

Hi
I see that most of the people who sell tarantulas are from the USA, so does anyone know how shipping between Europe and US works? Are there any rules, recommendations...
Thanks in advance

There are many rules that are quite strict, I don't of many, if any exporters here in the states.

A lot of paperwork would need to be done for permits and several other things, and I would assume those on the receiving end would have to do a lot of the same as well. As I'm not an importer or exporter, I can't really comment on anything.

@Todd Gearheart
@Austin S.
@Theneil
@Phil

One of the members I tagged, may possibly know more on the subject on one side or the other.

Oh, and your profile says that you are 14, so that will make it even more difficult I'm guessing.

 

[Konstantin]

Hi
It normally dont work to ship between Europe and US.Unless you are importing big shipment to justify all the hastle and paperwork.
There are loads reputable retailers in Europe you can buy from and probably quite a bit cheaper too than US prices
Regards Konstantin

 

[Tarantulalover]

There are many rules that are quite strict, I don't of many, if any exporters here in the states.

A lot of paperwork would need to be done for permits and several other things, and I would assume those on the receiving end would have to do a lot of the same as well. As I'm not an importer or exporter, I can't really comment on anything.

@Todd Gearheart
@Austin S.
@Theneil
@Phil

One of the members I tagged, may possibly know more on the subject on one side or the other.

Oh, and your profile says that you are 14, so that will make it even more difficult I'm guessing.

I see what you mean, thank you for your help. Although every selling I would do would be with my parents' permission.
I will talk to those who you tagged.

Thank you for helping,
Thomas

 

[Tarantulalover]

Hi
It normally dont work to ship between Europe and US.Unless you are importing big shipment to justify all the hastle and paperwork.
There are loads reputable retailers in Europe you can buy from and probably quite a bit cheaper too than US prices
Regards Konstantin

Hello,
Thank you for your answer.
I did found several good spider shops in Europe, tho my concern was more of if I breed and want to sell tarantulas, that I would know how to do with US people who would want to buy.
I know, I didn't even started the hobby yet, I'm young etc, but I mean that is what I am looking forward to
Thank you,
Thomas

 

[Theneil]

Hi
I see that most of the people who sell tarantulas are from the USA, so does anyone know how shipping between Europe and US works? Are there any rules, recommendations...
Thanks in advance

Your analysis is wrong. The tarantula keeping hobby is actually much larger in Europe than it is in The US, it is just the forums where US sales seem to be the most prevalent.

Thing of it is, unless you plan on selling illegally, you are going to be selling into your own market regardless, so i would just find local shops to sell to. The only US people who are (legally) buying from europe, are the importers, and they are buying for one of two reasons.

To profit via aprbitrage. (buy in the less expensive EU market sell in the high US market)

or to get something they cant find in the US. (most species are established in Europe before US gets them)

So if you have the Next T. selidonia, you can charge whatever you want in either market, and if you don’t then you will sell at EU prices reguardless because the importer wont spend the time/money/effort to import if they aren't getting a good deal.

 

[Tarantulalover]

Your analysis is wrong. The tarantula keeping hobby is actually much larger in Europe than it is in The US, it is just the forums where US sales seem to be the most prevalent.

Thing of it is, unless you plan on selling illegally, you are going to be selling into your own market regardless, so i would just find local shops to sell to. The only US people who are (legally) buying from europe, are the importers, and they are buying for one of two reasons.

To profit via aprbitrage. (buy in the less expensive EU market sell in the high US market)

or to get something they cant find in the US. (most species are established in Europe before US gets them)

So if you have the Next T. selidonia, you can charge whatever you want in either market, and if you don’t then you will sell at EU prices reguardless because the importer wont spend the time/money/effort to import if they aren't getting a good deal.

Ok, that makes sense. Thank you

 

[Casey K.]

I'd like to put my 2 cents in on this because I've heard and read enough of it to make me sick to my stomach. I'm not trying to throw anyone under the bus about it, nor am I trying to ruin the sales of those that import and re-sell for profit. In the US, you are given the name "brown boxer" or "illegal importer" if you purchase stock overseas and resell, trade, barter, produce sacs from and then sell offspring, etc. in the US. NOTE EVERYTHING I SAID IN BOLD. THAT IS TRUE. YOU ARE BROWN BOXING AND THEY WILL BURN YOUR ASS IF YOU ARE CAUGHT......but there's a CATCH to all of this and this is only for those that DO NOT SELL/BREED and are private collectors ONLY. This is also for those who purchase tarantulas for SCIENTIFIC research. What they WON'T tell you is that you DO NOT HAVE TO HAVE AN IMPORT LICENSE TO IMPORT TARANTULAS. YOU DO NOT, DO NOT, DO NOT!!!! If you can PROVE that your intent is pure, don't do anything stupid like ordering 100 of the same species (you're obviously reselling) then you are in the clear to order those rare jewels at European prices for 20%-400% cheaper depending on species/US costs. Now, if you decide to order 2-3 of the same species in order to obtain a female because they get larger or live longer, then that's OK. Do not order a **** ton of spiders that are the same species! Now, you DO STILL have to notify CUSTOMS and let them know what you are importing. You will have to pay them a fee and it's usually around $180. Every species, size, price has to be an exact match. No freebies unless they are listed! If its not, you risk heavy fines and/or the possibility of them confiscating your tarantulas if there are more tarantulas in your box than what you told customs would be in there. IF YOU CHOOSE TO ORDER CITES REQUIRED SPECIES, REGARDLESS YOUR REASON OF IMPORTING, YOU STILL HAVE TO HAVE A CITES PERMIT- EVEN IF YOU ARE ONLY A COLLECTOR. These species are protected. Air cargo shipping usually runs you around $500. For larger orders (up into the thousands of dollars range) you will need a broker to handle this for you. Now, I will say this again and if you don't believe me, PLEASE FEEL FREE TO CALL YOUR LOCAL CUSTOMS PORT OF ENTRY BECAUSE THEY WILL TELL YOU THE EXACT SAME THING! AS LONG AS YOU DO NOT RESELL, TRADE, BARTER, PRODUCE SACS AND SELL OFFSPRING, ETC FROM THE TARANTULAS YOU ORDER AND YOU KEEP THEM IN YOUR COLLECTION UNTIL THE DAY THEY DIE, THEN YOU DO NOT NEED A DAMN IMPORT PERMIT!!! You only have to have a permit when ordering stock for "commercial" use.

Sorry....but this was my "fed up" stage.
If anyone has any questions about this, I would gladly answer them....oh....and I will be posting REFERENCES to this post here in a few....directly from USFW's site for those that do not know how to navigate it.

Commercial Wildlife Shipments | U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service

Return to Office of Law Enforcement Home Page Return to Office of Law Enforcement Libraries

www.fws.gov

 

[Theneil]

Code of federal Regulations Title 50 for thise interested. I don’t know the exact parameters but there is under the proper circumstances the ability ti bring some in for personal (non commercial use) but as stated above no trade barter breeding to sell babies, etc. Still goes through customs (not just straight to your door for $50) still subject to every other rule also, i *believe* it is up FWS to decide if they think is personal or comercial. (i think more than 8 is the general breaking point i read)

So Technically there is a way to do it without a license but it is not leagal to do how 99.9% of people asking want. Also, the license is a whopping $100 per year. So if you ask me, you might as well just apply for one if you are gonna go through all the trouble. Then you protect your self from trouble later..

 

[Casey K.]

Code of federal Regulations Title 50 for thise interested. I don’t know the exact parameters but there is under the proper circumstances the ability ti bring some in for personal (non commercial use) but as stated above no trade barter breeding to sell babies, etc. Still goes through customs (not just straight to your door for $50) still subject to every other rule also, i *believe* it is up FWS to decide if they think is personal or comercial. (i think more than 8 is the general breaking point i read)

So Technically there is a way to do it without a license but it is not leagal to do how 99.9% of people asking want. Also, the license is a whopping $100 per year. So if you ask me, you might as well just apply for one if you are gonna go through all the trouble. Then you protect your self from trouble later..

If they decide to purchase for themselves instead of going through a US vendor, they can if it's not for commercial use.

 

[Redsycthe]

If they decide to purchase for themselves instead of going through a US vendor, they can if it's not for commercial use.

Too many people, on this kick. My take away. If your in the US, stay with US. Corner cutting from Europe to US. It's too much red tape. I maybe p***ing in the main stream. But I dont want the hassle. So much has changed, cut the semantics and keep it legal.

 

[Theneil]

Don’t take my word or somebody elses. CFR Title 50 outlines everything for anybody who wants to know the rules.

Not claiming ti be an expert, but whrn i read it, my understanding was even if you can qualify to import without thr license all the other rules still aply. Declaration, port of entry, inspection/clearance, records, CITES, Lacey Act, ESA, etc.

 

[Casey K.]

Don’t take my word or somebody elses. CFR Title 50 outlines everything for anybody who wants to know the rules.

Not claiming ti be an expert, but whrn i read it, my understanding was even if you can qualify to import without thr license all the other rules still aply. Declaration, port of entry, inspection/clearance, records, CITES, Lacey Act, ESA, etc.

You are right. That's what I was trying to say in my post. They still have to have CITES permits for protected species, declaration, port of entry, etc. Nothing I stated was false but as you said, everyone can do their own research and not just take any one person's word for it.

 

[Casey K.]

Too many people, on this kick. My take away. If your in the US, stay with US. Corner cutting from Europe to US. It's too much red tape. I maybe p***ing in the main stream. But I dont want the hassle. So much has changed, cut the semantics and keep it legal.

It is perfectly legal.

 

[Theneil]

You are right. That's what I was trying to say in my post. They still have to have CITES permits for protected species, declaration, port of entry, etc. Nothing I stated was false but as you said, everyone can do their own research and not just take any one person's word for it.

I wasn’t trying to argue with yout original post. Was more meant as an Add on.

Tesource for those interested and one of the reasons that people say you need a license (even if it isn't technically correct. )

 

[Redsycthe]

It is perfectly legal.

I'm just referencing what you said about the brown boxing issue. People declaring 200 imported spiders for personal use to circumvent certain declarations. It's what sets things back for honest keepers. I wasn't trying to step on toes.

 

[Casey K.]

I wasn’t trying to argue with yout original post. Was more meant as an Add on.

Tesource for those interested and one of the reasons that people say you need a license (even if it isn't technically correct. )

Oh I know....I was just wanting to make sure you knew what I meant by my post.

 

[Casey K.]

I'm just referencing what you said about the brown boxing issue. People declaring 200 imported spiders for personal use to circumvent certain declarations. It's what sets things back for honest keepers. I wasn't trying to step on toes.

Exactly. There are some that do try to cut corners. I understand completely. This is pretty much for those who are honest keepers/collectors that would like to save money. I was just trying to offer a valid explanation. When vendors use the term "brown boxing" and anything in reference to it, they only give you half the truth. They would never volunteer the information I just shared....which is fairly logical, though.

 

[Redsycthe]

Exactly. There are some that do try to cut corners. I understand completely. This is pretty much for those who are honest keepers/collectors that would like to save money. I was just trying to offer a valid explanation. When vendors use the term "brown boxing" and anything in reference to it, they only give you half the truth. They would never volunteer the information I just shared....which is fairly logical, though.

Absolutely, logic becomes more perception if you really want something out of "wheel house".

 

[Redsycthe]

Absolutely, logic becomes more perception if you really want something out of "wheel house".

^your "wheel house"