Avicularia urticans & Avicularia juruensis

[Dustin Amack]

At times it seems like the more I research, the more confused I become . I have been searching for a male "A.urticans" and want to be sure to get an appropriate male to potentially pair with my female. I was not so nicely put in my place by someone on the other forum for using the name A. urticans, which is common over there... I have read that in 2017 A. urticans and A. jureunsis came into synonymy. My issue lies in the images of what are referred to as A. juruensis, or the "yellow banded pink toe". My adult female most definitely does not posses yellow bands on her legs as most pics would suggest this species has. The setae on the abdomen seems to be similar with the reddish/purple coloration, but that's really about it. A majority of A. juruensis seem to be a much deeper purple color as well. Are their variations or morphs within the A. juruensis? I'm sure their are morphs as I have found at least 2 so far... Here is an image of a specimen that looks very similar to mine, however, mine is easily 6.5". Note no visible yellow banding found on the legs.

Here is what is listed in many places as an Avicularia Juruensis... Light yellowish banding on legs and it seems to be even brighter in younger specimens. This picture doesn't show the banding like many others however, I also wonder if some are confusing A. rufa for this as well... Different discussion

So here's a question... am I making this more difficult that in truly needs to be. Are these now completely synonymous and the same? Is it possible that the older the T gets the less it has yellow banding of any kind. I purchased my female as an adult and never saw it in juvi stages. I really appreciate any advice on this, and I am grateful for anyone who helps me understand this taxonomy change

 

[sdsnybny]

A. urticans was change after examining all the old stock collected and described a long time ago (in alcohol) ifrom the museums and private collections.
What you have pictured is what was known in the hobby before the revision as Avicularia urticans which matched the type specimen after examination of A. juruensis so it was changed. There were two different "Yellow Banded" T's before the revision. A. juruensis and A. aurantiaca both are now A. rufa but different localities. At least thats what I understand. these are pics of my female at different angles and times in molt cycle as you can see the coloration can appear different, then different lighting, camera, and monitors can add to the differences

 

[Dustin Amack]

 

[Dustin Amack]

Above is my adult female. Thank you @sdsnybny, that helps me understand a little between the difference in A. rufa which clearly has banding. Still, if I were to order a A. juruensis MM to breed this female, would is show to my door the same species as this or would it be some other form, possibly with banding? I hope that makes sense... Most posts and pics I find of A. juruensis really look to be a bit of a variation of the female I have...

 

[sdsnybny]

Here is a couple of pics (old names) notice the coloration of the carapace and the banding is still there as adult.
A. aurantiaca (now A. rufa)
http://arachnoboards.com/gallery/avicularia-aurantiaca.4443/
A. juruensis (now also A. rufa)
http://www.birdspiders.com/gallery/index.php/Tarantulas/birdspiders_0207

 

[sdsnybny]

Above is my adult female. Thank you @sdsnybny, that helps me understand a little between the difference in A. rufa which clearly has banding. Still, if I were to order a A. juruensis MM to breed this female, would is show to my door the same species as this or would it be some other form, possibly with banding? I hope that makes sense... Most posts and pics I find of A. juruensis really look to be a bit of a variation of the female I have...

Thats something you need to work out with the seller so you are both on the same page.
I would look for an A. urticans MM and if the seller is aware of the changes they will let you know if not then you are at least going to get A. urticans (now juruensis)

 

[Dustin Amack]

Thank you for your help with this man, I apreciate it. Your female is gorgeous by the way I absolutely love mine and I would love to try to breed her again, but I want to be 100% sure the bloodline is true. I paired her with a male a few months back which was sold as A.urticans from jamies Ts, however it didnt look quite right to me. She has yet to produce a sac which I'm a little glad for because I want to be positive. Another T hobbiest showed me a pic of a MM he had and it was much different than what was in my posession. Can't be too careful Thaks again brother.

 

[CEC]

IMO or for what it is worth...
Hobby aurantiaca is not rufa but is actually also juruensis, though, morphotype #1 (in addition to ulrichea and sp. Pucallpa etc.) Whereas, hobby urticans/sp. Peru Purple are morphotype #2.
Ironically, what Schmidt describes as "urticans" actually fits the setae description of morphotype #1 and not morphotype #2. So what we know as "urticans" in the hobby is not the Avicularia that Schmidt described.

The poorly described and lost type specimen of aurantiaca was characterized as having vivid orange bands but having only that to go on for the authors they said it COULD be rufa but knowing that many juruensis variations have vivid bands, who knows? It's really up to interpretation.
We also have to dismiss any hobby names as being legit and separate what was originally described and what we know under that label in the hobby. The revision proved the inaccuracy of hobby labels. Many species labels were given on a hunch and not examined/compared, often do to the nomina dubia species type material being lost. Therefore, what was originally described as aurantiaca could be rufa but that does not mean the hobby material under the aurantiaca label is rufa.

 

[CEC]

@sdsnybny & @Dustin Amack

I know this is an old thread but to clarify here a bit more. Here are some pics so you may see my point.
Avicularia rufa has completely different setae than Aviclaria juruensis (which has 2 morphotypes). Also, leg I of hobby aurantiaca is not 10% shorter than their leg IV according to my molt measurements. That is a critical characteristic that separates Avicularia rufa, Avicularia avicularia and Avicularia hirschii from Avicularia juruensis.

Avicularia spp. morphotypes are catagorized by their setae structure. Avicularia rufa has many locality/color variants (as many Avicularia spp. do, but especially because like Avicularia avicularia, Avicularia rufa have a wide range in South America). One of the differences of Avicularia rufa and a few other Avicularia spp. is rufa only have one morphotype listed... and therefore, it's simply just 'rufa' when labeling, no morphotype number needed.

Avicularia rufa (ex. hobby juruensis)
Adult Female

Avicularia rufa
Mature male

Avicularia juruensis m#1 (ex. aurantiaca)
Adult Female

Avicularia juruensis m#1
Mature Male